Microphone placement?

Hi Chris

I use the potitions from your pdf , sound it is OK , but I got no bass , why?

rgrds argi greece

Hi GianCarlo,

We don't recommend taking measurements for people sitting on the floor.  I would keep the mic at the same height as the couch seats.

If your couch is up against the wall then take measurements 7 and 8 about 50 cm forward from where they are shown in the diagram.

I have the Onkyo NR609 -   Knowing that it will tune on the higher end at least gives me a starting point to work from.  Compared to ground zero.  I understand DBs and using my SPL meter but I have no idea how to calibrate EQ.  

Lastly - do I HAVE to use a Mono extension?? I know you have a recommended cord but would a Stereo extension work?? thank so much for your time! 

Ok, Well, I repositioned the speakers and Audyssey set my crossover in the rears at 100 hz and the center at 90 hz fronts at 80 hz. Upon my research it is recommended to have the speakers at 80 hz, is there a reason for this change, considering Audyssey originally programed them at 80 hz? and what does this change in frequency mean?

@Robert: it's best to place the mic slightly above the seat back to avoid reflections from it.

I have a rather smallist home theater. So my primary listening postion, is the sofa, that's up against the back wall. I know that you should avoid putting the microphone near the wall, but that's where I sit. So where should I place the microphone?

Hello, I'm trying to use MultEQ in a bedroom setup.  I wanted to know if the 6 points used for a typical living room  sofa should be used when setting Audyssey for a bed?  It makes sense to run the first 3 measurements at the head of the bed at ear level but I'm trying to figure out if the remaining 3 should be near the "middle" of the bed (~1 meter away from the head) or somewhere else.  The bed is centered to the front speakers.  Thanks!

I purchased a Denon AVR 3311ci last week and I kind of got ahead of myself and I connected the Audyssey MIC and did a setup but it wasn't where I sit. It was in the middle of the room. Is there anyway I can reset the Audyssey settings and start over?

Thanks,

Jason

Hi Chris, Can you tell me the correct Audessey Mic Part Number for the Integra DTR-80.3?

1. A boom arm or a tripod on the couch will work fine

2. As long as the boom arm is not placed between the mic and the speaker it's not a problem. Smaller (rather than big bulky) tripods are better. There could be some issues with reflections at very high frequencies from the tripod especially if it is the type that has a large head for big cameras

3. Yes, I would recommend raising the mic above the couch back to avoid reflections from the couch back that could interfere with the measurements

Chris, I love how well Audyssey works with my home stereo.  Now I want to use it in my car and replace my Cleansweep with an Alpine PXE-H660.  I want to have it professionally installed, but suspect that most installers will just want to use the standard 4 positions since they won't need to drag out a computer to do more positions (though I could just recalibrate it myself later).  It would seem that more positions is preferable as it is with a home setup.  If so, do you have suggestions as to where the extra positions would yield the most benefit to the computations?  Also, is there an upcoming standalone unit that will incorporate XT32 instead of XT expected anytime soon?

The dots are just a representation of the approximate locations.  They are not drawn to be accurate to the mm...  The first mic position should be where the center of your head is.

Ciao Alessandro,

Audyssey needs to sample the listening area using the pattern discussed above.  It doesn't matter how many listening positions there are.  The algorithm needs the information from around the room as shown in the diagram.  Note: the 8 measurements don't need to be seating positions.  They are spaced by about 80 cm even if there are no seats there.

Hi Chris -

I am new to this website / forum.  I recently bought a Marantz AVR (SR5003) that came with the Audyssey mic equipment (MultiEQ).  I am using Paradigm speakers (bookshelf, surrounds, and 10" sub)  I am in the midst of tweaking and trying different settings out to make sure I get the "best" sound possible.

I have downloaded and read several Audyssey articles that pertain to the setup and position of the mic.  I am running into conflicting reports of where to place the mic ... or I am just not understanding what is meant in the articles (different terminology).

What I have seen and read consistently states that you want to place the mic in the "center" of the "listening position".  I have also read that you want to place the mic in the "sweet spot" of the "listening area".  One Audyssey article I read states that you want to place the mic in the "sweet spot" regardless of where you will actually be sitting.  The "sweet spot" is being defined as the mic (and tripod that it sits on) forms the tip of an imaginary equal-lateral triangle with the front speakers forming the base of the triangle.

The reason I am posting to this forum is that I have a family room that is 15' wide x 19' long.  There is a half wall that divides the family room from the kitchen.  This is the wall my surround speakers sit on.  However, they are a little off axis to the front speakers.  In other words, they don't face the fronts dead on; they are shifted over a bit.  I would say that the left surround ends up facing the mid-point of the front speakers and the right surround is approximately 4 - 5ft off axis.

So, last night, I re-ran the Audyssey auto speaker setup.  My first position was in the "sweet spot" of the "listening area".  I did not place the tripod in the center of the couch where we will be sitting (listening position).  Instead, I placed the mic in the middle of the listening area ... forming a equal lateral triangle with the front speakers.  If you can visualize this, this meant that the surrounds were a bit off axis in relation to the front speakers and subwoofer. 

For the other five measurements, I went two feet to the right and two feet to the left of the first measurement and then took three measurements two feet in from of the first three (which meant I ended up being like 4 - 5ft away from the fronts and the sub).

So, what is the preferred method here?  Do I take the first measurement in the center of the couch for the first measurement and then work around that.  By the way, the couch is up against the half-wall which again is where my surrounds sit at approximately one foot above listening level.  Or, do I take the first measurement in the "sweet spot" with the mic (tripod) forming the tip of the triangle?

Finally, does it hurt to place some couch cushions or pillows on some of the reflective surfaces in the room (i.e. wall, glass doors to fireplace, etc...)?  Will that confuse the Audyssey speaker calibration?

Any advice and assistance will be greatly appreciated.  Thank you for your time!

Thanks,

Rick

Re: surround speakers. They should really be dipoles... I know there is a big disagreement between the movie and music industry about this, but the fact is that 90% or more of surround content is movies.  Dipoles are better at creating the needed diffuse sound field that matches what you hear in a movie theater.  Pointing surround speakers to the listener causes them to be more localized and this is not desirable for surround content in film.

Re: Wides.  They need to be at ±60° relative to the center (0°).  This puts them twice as far apart as your front L and R speakers.

Re: Back Surround.  It's the least important direction.  Wides are the most important, followed by Heights and then Back Surrounds.  Keep in mind that only a couple of AVRs today support the capability to have all 11 channels.  Most are 7- or 9-channel products and the choice there is clear: no need for Back Surrounds.

Chris...thanks for consistently helping/replying.    I had a conversation in the past about how the sound is a bit too bright after Audyssey...specifically that the voice in the song seems a bit "cut off".  That is, I felt that when the micro adjustments are made to the reflections, the fullness of the voice is also partly cut off.

The comment above is re-prompting me with 3 questions please :

1. So, mic level to tweeter is more appropriate than ear level ?

2. What exactly is off-axis roll off ?...tried to google but did not get a clear answer.

3. Whether B&W speakers (684) are one of these that are impacted by this off-axis roll off that can cause the speakers to be a bit too bright etc.

Hi Chris,

I just bought a Denon AVR-1713 and in the initial setup, the diagram for the microphone placement conflicts with the MULTEQ diagram on Audyssey's website.  on the setup screen, the back row goes 2,1,3 (audyssey's diagram is 3,1,2), the front row on my screen is 5,4,6 (audyssey's diagram gives me 4,5,6).  Any reason why?  Which one should i follow?  Thanks!

Kevin

Hi Argi,

I need a little more info.  What do you mean by "no bass"?  Is there no signal at all from the subwoofer?  Or is the signal too low for your preference?

Hello Chris,

I have an Onkyo TX NR809 with MultEQ XT.  My couch is identical to the diagram, but it is up against the wall.  I have a few questions:

1) Can mic position 4-6 be placed at ear height taking into account that listeners are sitting on the floor at those location?  Is that too much of a vertical difference compared to the mic height when taking measurements 1-3?

2) Where should I place the mic for position 7 & 8 being that my couch is against the wall?

Thank you for your time,

GianCarlo

Luke,

That's impossible. My speakers are all wired through the walls to my media closet.  I'm simply asking.  What's better - NO Calibration or a non recommended solution such as the extension? Would it be plausible for me to do the calibration with a non recommended solution and then adjust the high frequencies after the fact? 

The crossover recommendation is based on the measurements in your room.  So, it's not surprising that the roll off frequencies changed as you moved your speakers.  For example, if the distance from the wall changed then it is expected to see a change in the roll off frequency.  That's the whole point of measuring and not going by the theoretical spec!

Chris,

First of all: Thank you for your prompt reply and the very useful information!!

You pretty much answered this already, but just to be 100% sure: the system finds out automatically how to weight the different measurements, right? As opposed to: the system assumes that you'll be measuring in a certain pattern, for example, that you measure in pairs of 2, one to the left, one to the right and the last measurement will be in the middle (or something along those lines)... In other words: As long as i make the first measurement in the center position and keep a symmetry with all other measurements, i'm free to define my listening area however i want to (i.e. it's OK if i have several measurements along the center line).

BTW, how do I see the frequency curves after calibration (using an Onkyo TX-NR809)  I read some posts here mentioning certain 'dB' values at certain frequencies.  Where do I find these?  Perhaps I can see what settings are made to my higher frequencies.  Thanks.

Yes, I would recommend following the same pattern.  The basic principle is still the same: the algorithm needs to sample points around the listening area.

You can start over any time. Turn your TV and AVR on and insert the mic.

The speaker distances (actually delays) are calculated from the first mic position.  If the first mic position is moved forward then, yes, you should change the delay settings by that amount.  Alternatively, you can leave the first mic position near the wall (so no need to change delays) and then just make sure the remaining measurements are not too close to the back wall.

Chris: I have just looked at the pdf for 8 position mic measurements for the multi eq. The pdf does not show the relative distances between the mic positions. Are we talking 2 feet, 3 feet?

Please advise.

Thanks.

Sonny

Hello Chris

This is great information, thanks! One question... I have a Denon 3808 with Paradigm Monitor 5 as front speakers, 4 Micro for surround channels, CC-290 as center and PDR-10 as subwoofer. You mention in the document that all speakers should be set to "Small" otherwise no bass will be sent at all to the subwoofer... I find this a little strange as I seem to remember that mine are not set to Small but probably Large (although not full range I think) and I do get bass on my sub.

Anyway, with the kind of setup I have, do you still recomment to set the speakers to "Small" ?

Thanks!

The preferred pattern is as shown in the diagram.  One reason for not putting the points up against the back of the couch is to make sure that people don't put the mic on the couch--we found that many do because they don't use a tripod.  That's not a good idea...

Hi Chris,

Firstly thank you for your prompt clarification, but perhaps I wasn´t 100% clear in my first question.

Since audyssey results depends on weighting all measurements it takes, and above you comment that "Yes, Audyssey automatically combines the measurements with the appropriate weighting. [...] If you want to give more weighting to the center line then you are doing it correctly: take more measurements there.", it would make sense to one seeking to optimize the results of audyssey in one particular listening position to take more measurements in that position and/or take the other measurements a bit closer to it. My goal is to maximize audyssey effects in one small area (the main listening position) instead of broadening/ softenning its effects in a larger area and I understood from your comment quoted above that one could accomplish that by taking more measurements in that desired area and perhaps enhancing further this purpose by taking the other measurements a bit closer to it. Does it make sense to take more measurements in that area we want to give more weight? And would it help to take the other measurements in positions a bit closer to this center area, like 20-30cm away instead of the standard 80cm?

thank you for your time and I´m glad to say that I´m already happy with audyssey results at home!