Subwoofer setup and MultEQ

Hi Tim, just connect the Audyssey mic and start MultEQ.  The first step in products with SubEQ HT is the coarse sub level setting to 75 dB.  This is just to make sure that the sub level control on the back of each sub is not set too high so the back of the AVR runs out of adjustment range.

Chris,

I am working with Audyssey MultiEQ XT on the Marantz 7005s and find the result mostly phenomenonal except for the highs. I believe the upper range, 8K and 16K, is to bright. Could you advise since the midrange and bass is very nice sounding. Thank you. Great answers on the forum BTW.

There can be a couple reasons for this:

1. Measurement locations.  All measurements must be taken even if there is only one listener.  Mic pattern to follow is shown here. If the mic is placed too far off to the side then resulting sound can be bright because of natural tweeter response roll off.

2. Target curve. Audyssey recommends the Reference curve that includes a high frequency roll off designed to translate studio conditions to home listening.  If you are using Flat, then there may be too much high frequency content especially for movies.

Thank you Chris for the prompt reply. I use all 8 measurements with a mic stand and do not have the EQ on flat. Any suggestion on how I can tame this. Maybe point the mic more at the speaker rather than perpendicular? Any recommendation would be greatly appreaciated. Just for some reference I did try it on our onkyos and denons as well and they are also bright regard of which room i try it in. The marantz is adding +7 to +9 and the Denon is at +4 to +5. The onkyo is bright not I can see the EQ reading. Please advise, I have spent hours and days on perfecting Audyssey deployments.

Also, do you recommend audyssey for two channel listening?

Thanks again.

Audyssey doesn't care how many channels you are using.  It corrects each speaker individually.  

What speakers do you have?  

hi Chris,

can you help me?

i have the denon 4311.

how can i change the target curve from flat to reference?

because i am facing the same problem as above:the high frequencies are to high.

thank you in advance.

Michalis

Chris, I was not referring to channel; I was answering your previous question on how many measurements did Audyssey take and the answer was 8 positions.

I have tried it on PSB Platinum 6.1 setup and Snell Acoustics 5.1 setup.  The PSB Platinums are in an acoustically treated room.  The Snells are in a multimedia billiards room with minor acoustic treatment.

Both instances yield high frequency gain from Audyssey.  Thank you again.

Michali: You can do this from the Setup Menu.

Setup-->Audio/Video Adjust-->Audyssey Settings-->MultEQ XT32

In this menu you will see "Audyssey".  This is Reference.  You can also select "Flat".

Ignore the Manual and Byp L/R settings.  Those are not useful.

Saigon: you asked me if I would recommend Audyssey for 2-channel listening.  The answer is yes, because Audyssey operates on each speaker that you have.  It doesn't matter how many speakers you have.  They will all be corrected.

Pointing the mic to ceiling is required for proper Audyssey measurements.  Also, make sure the the mic is at the same height as the tweeters and not near any reflective surfaces.  It should be mounted on a camera tripod and not sitting on books or tables.

Yes I have tried measurements with a mic stand and tripod. Point straight up and level as well as pointing slightly to speaker and many other ways. Still results are too bright.

Thanks for answer on two channel audio. So far I like the results much more in multichannel application.

Chris...

My setup is Monitor Audio RX8s / RX Centre / Q Acoustic 2010i rears / BK Monolith sub.

I've run the Audyssey calibration a few times now as i've slowly been introducing new components but the last time I did it my crossover freq results were

Front - Full Band

Centre- Full Band

Surround - 60hz

Did something go very wrong with the process or can that happen? And if so what would be the cause?

AVR sub mode is set to LFE and Bass Setting is 120Hz

I obviously did make sure thereafter that speakers were set to small and crossovers were changed to:

Fronts - 60hz

Centre - 60hz

Surround - 80hz

But is that enough?

Audyssey's channel levels were originally...

Front -6.5

Centre -7.0

Sub -10.5

....which brings me to my main query. Is it recommended to alter these levels or not? For instance, if I feel my surrounds are too prominent can I lower their level? If I feel dialogue isn't clear is it ok to increase the centre?

My main concern is the sub though - If im not happy with the sub's sound (just don't feel it's generally got enough punch) is it recommended to just increase the channel level? Or .... would it be a better idea to run the calibration all over again and lower the sub's low level gain? I tried at 12 o 'clock already and it measured -12db and last time I ran Audyssey I made sure it was at around 10 o clock which gave the -10.5db reading.

Basically i've been comparing bassy moments in movies and music blurays in Stereo and 5.1 and though its clear when the sub is there I don't feel the difference is substantial enough considering the quality of the Monolith which leads me to think i'm not getting the best out of it.

Cheers

Stu

Sorry for channel levels I mean rears -10db .. not sub.

Hi Stuart,

The decision to set speakers to Full Band is made by Onkyo not Audyssey.  They use 40 Hz as the decision point.  So, if Audyssey finds the roll off to be 40 Hz or below they will set to Full Band.  We recommend against that and the solution is simple: set them to Small by sleeting a crossover frequency above 40 Hz (60 Hz as you picked is fine).

The levels should not be changed.  They are set so that each speaker plays at the same level as other speakers and so that the system plays at reference when the master volume is at 0. Changing those levels will have a negative effect on Dynamic EQ that will be thrown out of calibration.

If the sub level is reporting at –12 dB then your sub volume control is turned up too high.  It's  not a matter of "punch". It's a matter of reference.  The sub level needs to be set so that it matches the other speakers.  That's how the studio is calibrated.  If you have a personal preference for higher-than-reference bass levels then it's no problem to just raise the sub level in the AVR menu.  It won't affect the Audyssey room correction filters, but it will have an effect on Dynamic EQ.

Sorry I forgot to list the AVR - it's Denon, rather than Onkyo. But I assume it would be the same reason?

Cheers for answering the other query - so basically i'm not to touch the channel levels at all as there's benefit. Though if i'd like an increased bass level I can ramp the sub up, though it will affect the Dynamic EQ.

And is it only crucial to make sure the sub doesn't measure -12db? For instance the -10.db it read the last time I ran calibration I assume is ok now and I won't get any better performance from running it again with less volume?

Yes, same argument.  In the Denon the speakers are called Large (same as Full Range).  That setting should be avoided if you have a subwoofer.

As long as the sub is not showing as –12 dB you are fine.  The levels are just relative numbers so as long as the AVR is within its adjustment range all is well.

Hi Chris, just wanted to tell you about the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 Sub EQ HT on my Onkyo TX-NR3009 receiver.

Ran Audyssey again, after getting great tips from other forum members. Also, I made some changes in my HT room. I moved the subs, about a foot away from the walls, in the corners. Since I don't have a right rear corner, I moved the right rear sub, to just behind the main seating area. Instant ButtKicker! I leveled out each sub to 75dB and then ran the full 8 position, Audyssey calibration.

First, I ran the calibration with just two SVS PB12-NSD subwoofers. The results were great! Then, I ran the calibration again, with two additional subs added to the mix. This time the bass was much deeper, more powerful, tighter and more detailed. It's as if my four subwoofers were put on steroids. Sub EQ HT is the real deal!

It's amazing, the added dimension that a quad subwoofer setup makes, in the enjoyment of both movies and music. The genie is out of its bottle. There's just no way that I would ever go back, to running just two subs. From now on, it's four subwoofers, or no subwoofers.

Thanks for this feedback Tim. I hope others coming here find it useful as well.  Happy to hear the system sounds great.

hi chris,  i have onkyo 607 avr with the LFE  xover set to 120,  on my mission m3as sub i can set xover up to 200.    My question is do i set xover on the sub to 120 or turn it up all the way to 200?  thanks   

Hi Chris.

I have the Onkyo tx-nr709. I just replaced my Bose accustmass 6 set with the procinema 600 def tech set.

Now the sub has an lfe input that goes to the receiver and then also has a Low pass crossover knob. When calibrating where do I turn that knob too.

And lastly after calibrating what to switch the the satellite speakers in the settings?

Thank you sir.

@omkar: the frequency knob on the sub should be set to the highest value so that it doesn't interfere with the measurements and proper bass management.  It's not really a crossover--it's just a lowpass filter and is there for people with legacy stereo preamps that have no bass management.  It has no role in systems with modern AVRs.

@Matthew: The knob should be set the highest number for the same reason stated above.  The speakers should be set to Small otherwise no bass will be sent to the sub.

Hi Chris,

Appreciate your patient responses to all our questions. Ask Audyssey is great knowledge, and support.

I had a Denon 1911 with Polk TSI series speakers (7ch) and 2x Polk PSW110 subs (connected together with a y cable for the 0.1 channel). Ignoring the 7 speakers for a moment as they've always calibrated consistently across A/V receivers, and focussing on the 2 subs as I have a square room and 2 subs was the only solution to fix standing waves; I used to calibrate each sub at +1.5db individually with my 1911, as they together used to calibrate with MultEQ at 0db mostly, or rarely to +0.5db.

I switched to a Denon 2113 today as I wanted to experience MultEQ XT (also somes with a new Audyssey mic which is different from my earlier Denon), and while all my other 7 speakers (fronts, center, surrounds, surr.backs) calibrate on the 2113 to about the same levels as they used to on the 1911, there are differences in how the subs calibrate.

Both subs are exactly at the same volume as before, the low pass knobs on the subs turned up all the way to their max 160hz, the LPF of LFE on the Denon was set to 120Hz (default) on both the 1911 and 2113 as well. In short, no changes whatsoever in any calibration parameters/positions/sub volumes, etc. except that the 2 receivers are different and come with different Audyssey mics:

On the 1911 with supplied DM-A409 mic: I ensured that each sub calibrated individually to +1.5db: because they together calibrated to 0db, or very rarely to +0.5db.

On the 2113 with supplied ACM1HB mic: With the sub volumes unchanged, they both calibrated individually to -1.5db! (i.e -1.5db less that on the 1911) Together, they calibrated to -2db!

Could you help me understand if anything's wrong? Not sure why there is a change, and also unsure how this will impact my listening experience.

Regards!

Small correction to my comment above:

>> On the 2113 with supplied ACM1HB mic: With the sub volumes unchanged, they both calibrated individually to -1.5db! (i.e -1.5db less that on the 1911) Together, they calibrated to -2db!

That should have read:

On the 2113 with supplied ACM1HB mic: With the sub volumes unchanged, they both calibrated individually to -1.5db! (i.e 3db less that on the 1911) Together, they calibrated to -2db!

1-2 dB differences are quite small.  This may be because of slight difference in mic sensitivity or slight change in mic position.  I wouldn't worry about it too much.

I've changed the speaker settings to 40 hz and I've noticed the sub settings are at 80hz. Am I supposed to change that as well or leave it

If you mean the LFE lowpass filter in the AVR, then it should be set to 120 Hz.  It's wrong that AVR makers make this a setting.  Content in the LFE track is authored up to 120 Hz so any other setting is incorrect.

Thanks chris!

Dear Chris,

I am using Pro Kit to upgrade the AV system many times, Audyssey had done great job!

The subwoofer (SVS PB13-U) was placed on the left close to front wall, and the graph after correction is flat (see attach 120811 Before Change). But still can hear some standing wave of 30~40Hz. The Trim is -5.5dB.

Try to move the subwoofer forward away from front wall, around 1/3~1/4 of the distance bewteen front wall and back wall. The hearing standing wave is weaken. The graph before correction is different (see attach 120915 After Change). The Trim is -2.5dB (same subwoofer volume). But why the graph after correction is not flat with raise about 60~70Hz?

Have I did something wrong? What can I make it better?

Thank you very much!

Hi Kingyu,

How are you "hearing" the standing wave? You would have to be moving around and listening for changes.  From the graphs it would appear that the first position is better.  The second position seems to have introduced a big mode at 60 Hz.  

The other thing to worry about is electrical hum at 60 Hz.  Do you hear humming or buzzing?

Good Day.

I have some questions about the setup of my subwoofer (a Polk PSW505) with my AVR (an Onkyo TX-SR508):

My AVR only has one Crossover selection option - no other fine tuning is available for what is sent to the sub... So, should I set the Crossover to 120 in order to get the full LFE as well as the bass from the other speakers? Or does the AVR automatically 'know' to send the full LFE signal, so I can therefore drop my Crossover setting down to 80?

Also, when using the Audyssey 2EQ program, my Onkyo continues to drop my sub down to a -15db setting no matter where I place it or how low I drop the volume on the sub (currently down to about 30% volume)... So, how low is TOO low for the volume level on the sub? Or does it not matter? Should I drop the volume all the way down to say 10%, or will I be losing too much of the subs 'power' or functioning? Along those same lines - will I be messing up the Audyssey functions if I just go ahead and up the sub setting in the AVR to say -5db?

Thank you very much in advance for any assistance!