Subwoofer setup and MultEQ

Thank you! (repeat as many times as you've said speakers should be set to small)

No seriously, thank you Chris for all your help and suggestions and for taking the time to respond to all these comments and questions.

Hi Wayne,

I'm not sure how much I can help as I don't understand the purpose or effect of the REL sub settings.

First: I have never quite understood the scientific reason behind having a different "mode" for music and movies.  The purpose of a sub is to take over the content below the speaker crossover.  Why would that duty depend on the content?  It's a simple matter of integration of the two responses--nothing to do with whether it's music or movies.

Second: I don't know what REL means by "Active Bass Controller".  Are those gain controls?  If so I don't recommend having them set to their max values.  

Hi Wayne,

Audyssey is not based on standard parametric/graphic EQ filters with bands at some frequencies.  Instead, it uses FIR time-domain filters.  The 128x number is a relative number to indicate how much higher the resolution is compared to 16x.  The actual number of filter points is in the thousands.

Should i put my sub in LFE mode during calibration??

Hi Kingyu,

How are you "hearing" the standing wave? You would have to be moving around and listening for changes.  From the graphs it would appear that the first position is better.  The second position seems to have introduced a big mode at 60 Hz.  

The other thing to worry about is electrical hum at 60 Hz.  Do you hear humming or buzzing?

You are better off putting a y-cord on the output of the Sound EQ and pinging the subs together as "one".  Try to set the volume control on each sub to the same position so they play at the same level as each other.

Hi Chris,

Thanks so much for getting back with the answers. I have re-run the MultEQ setup following all your recommendations (which also involved shifting some furniture) and now I think I got rid of those harsh bass peaks and overall sound got much clearer. Previously I didn't realize that correct placement of setup mic is itself a part of tone equalization process and even slight mic placement inaccuracy, like 1 inch or so,  in terms of observing distances (especially the distance from back wall) can boost or cut bass dramatically - so I put the tripod with the mic on the couch exactly at the level of listeners' ears observing the minimum back wall distance you recommended and the 2 feet distance between the listening positions. It's a great pity that in their user manuals AVR manufacturers like Onkyo do not bother to provide specific mic placement details like minimum required wall distance and distance between measurement points, furthermore, let alone first time users, even a so called "professional installer" who was setting up my system didn't realize the importance of accurate mic placement and the effect it has on tone equalization and placed the mic as if its measurement location didn't matter at all, and that's really sad. Anyway, I'm quite satisfied with the sound so far, and thank you ever so much again for your detailed recommendations.

Best regards,

Alex

Hi Chris,

I have indeed some Bass issue i am trying to address (i fear this issue is more a mechanical than an acoustical one: i am trying to limit excessive vibrations in the sofa which are driving me crazy). Being sure that i have correct polarity on all my speakers/subwoofers is probably a good idea ;)

As said in one of my earlier post, the reason i think i have polarity issue is that when i tried a 4 subs configuration using the as-eq1, i could see in the before graph a huge and wide dip (which was not there with a 2 subs configuration either with the JBLs or the SVSs). Once i flipped the phase switch (polarity switch hopefully), the dip was completely gone in the graph. It means that either the JBLs or the SVSs have the wrong polarity... At the moment, the only thing i am sure is that my FR and FL speakers have the correct polarity.

Fred

Hi Allan, the AS-EQ1 was (now discontinued) an external subwoofer processor made by SVS using Audyssey MultEQ technology.

So Sub EQ HT has little, to no effect, on setting up four subwoofers?

Also, all four of my subs are located at the front of my home theater, spaced equally apart. It's not feasible for me to place subs along the side walls, or at the back of my home theater.

Thanks for you help Chris. 

I will try with a different amp.

Hi Chris,

My set up is Onkyo 606 receiver, bose 301 front speakers, Accusound 200 watts center speaker, jamo sub 200 as subwoofer ,jamo cube speakers as suround and rear surround.

When I do auto set-up with Audyssey couple of times and run it again it seems like I had lost the sound of my sub woofer. I still got power with my sub and I tried to used another cable for the sub but still can't get a sound from my sub.

Your help is very much appreciated....

so chris is it safe to assume that audyssey is setting the two sub outputs and allows for the conbination of both when setting the Levels?

Strange... Where is the sub volume control set?  Are you hearing the Audyssey test signal playing from the sub?

Please forgive my ignorance. I have a Marantz SR6003 with MultiEQ. I know MultiEQ does adjustments to the satellite speakers but I'm nut sure about the sub. I don't see any EQ settings for the sub only the volume setting will change (higher or lower). Since MultiEQ is not as good as XT or XT32, is my sub really getting EQ adjustments? Second, I can get MultiEQ pro to work with the Marantz SR6003?

One last question. I can take up to six measurements with MultiEQ but if have a small room and only a love seat which only give me 2 listening positions. Do I need to still take all 6 measurements or is 2 enough? and if I should take all 6 measurements, where the heck to I put the mike after I take first 2 measurements. Thanks again.

SubEQ HT can set up any number of subwoofers.  It's completely scalable.  But, for it to do that the manufacturer of the AVR has to allow individual time and level control of each sub.  So far none have allowed this for more than two subs.

This will probably be the next cool feature on high end receivers for 2013. The ability to allow individual time and level control for four subwoofers (Sub EQ 4XHT). The companies need to come up with new stuff to keep people buying there products.

Hi Chris,

I read your post " The Audyssey Reference and Audyssey Flat curves are identical in the low frequency range. They only difference is in the high frequencies where the Ref. curve has a roll off".

My question is,  Audyssey Reference and Audyssey Flat curves have a same bass effect but which one has more treble effect (more high freq).

Thanks Chris. 

Hi Chris,

I have the Denon 4810 and have set up the Multi Eq pro earlier. I had to go through an Authorized Audyssey installer to do this. I would like to do this myself so every time I change the speaker position, I do not need to call the installer to do this for me. I know that I need to purchase the kit to do this. In addition, I will need to use the PRO software. From what I heard, the access to use the PRO software is given only to dealers. Is this true?

Thanks,

Subu

you are right they are connected via y-cord.

can i do something?

Hi Gary,

It's common to find bass extension below the specified roll off point when speakers are placed close to walls or in corners.  The benefit of setting the crossovers higher is that more content is sent to the sub where the MultEQ and MultEQ XT filters have more resolution and will produce a smoother response.  There will be little difference between 80 Hz and 100 Hz.  I would go with what the manufacturer recommends in this case.

Your sub volume control is turned up way too high and so the AVR is running out of adjustment range.  Yes, you should turn it down and re-run.

Hi Chris

I have an SVS pb10-nsd subwoofer and a Denon avr 1910. The subwoofer is in the back corner of the room so it is behind me to the side. I know it’s not the optimal position but it’s the only one. My problem is that i get localization issues and too much bass in the upper part of the bass sound-image if I set lpf for lfe to 120hz like you recommend. So i have set it to 80hz instead. Could this be because the subwoofer is placed in the back corner?

Also. I have 2 tower speakers that go to 40hz or lower. I have set crossover to 60hz instead of the normal 80hz also to reduce the upper level bass. 

If i set lpf for lfe to 120 and crossover to 80 I get quite a lot of sound in the upper bass range. So my problem is I can’t get the recommended settings to work properly. 

Any ideas as to what might be wrong? Subwoofer placement maybe? And am I missing out in the bass-area with these settings?

Kind regards

Jens

Saigon: you asked me if I would recommend Audyssey for 2-channel listening.  The answer is yes, because Audyssey operates on each speaker that you have.  It doesn't matter how many speakers you have.  They will all be corrected.

Pointing the mic to ceiling is required for proper Audyssey measurements.  Also, make sure the the mic is at the same height as the tweeters and not near any reflective surfaces.  It should be mounted on a camera tripod and not sitting on books or tables.

Question about the center channel. My center is larger than the other front and surrounds speakers. Now I turned the four other speakers to 40hz. Does the center get changed to what the calibration was turned at which would be 120hz or match it to 40hz like the others. Does it matter?

Hi Bill,

If you are using the Audyssey Pro kit for both the Sub Equalizer and the Integra then you can ignore anything that has to do with the consumer mic.  There is no mic pass-through connection needed and no need to connect 1a to 1b.  That is only needed for those that are running the built-in room correction in the AVR (not Audyssey Pro).

It could also be that the 16 Hz is a little optimistic.  I would move it up a bit if the first test above still exhibits the issue.

Hi chris
I'm not surprised I'm still learning every day as a part time home audioguy with a small biz.,
From you chris your helping me from what I was taught in the past
Set sub crossover at 8O
Gain just over half and you come along to dispel all confusion.

Are you saying all older receivers with no menu
Settings for bass crossover
I have an old Nad t-761,
To still set crossover at max then av will still set
Frequency out at around 80 on it's own?
My speakers are set
To small
I did have subs set at 80.

Hi Chris, very interesting reading on these pages!

I have a question though, beacause i have not come across this: My setup consists of an Onkyo TX-NR809 and a Kef T305 speakerset. After running Audyssey, the subwoofer volume level was set at -12 db. In your blog you suggest that in this case you should turn the subwoofer level down, but my sub (Kef T-2) has no volume control available. Does this mean Audyssey will not be able to optomize the settings? If so, is there anything i can do about that?

Thanx in advance for your reply!

@Alex: yes, the listening volume setting should be done in the listening position.

@Ollie: I have also seen this problem with volume knobs on sub amplifiers that are defective and don't properly track as you turn them.

1-2 dB differences are quite small.  This may be because of slight difference in mic sensitivity or slight change in mic position.  I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Hi Chris

I am using a Marantz AV8801 and running Audyssey XT32 and having an unusual issue.  I noticed that it sets my subwoofer too low.  Initially, during the Audyssey setup process,  it kept saying my subs gain was too high so I lowered the volume until it stopped bringing up that message.  It went ahead and did all the measurements.  It set the sub at -5.5.  When running the noise level test, all of the speaker are approximately 75db, except the subwoofer which is at 63db.  I tried running the setup with higher volume setting on the subwoofer and skipped the message which warned the gain was too high, and after this setup, same issue, the subwoofer was set at about 63-64db.  Am I doing something incorrectly during the setup procedure?

Thank you

Chris