Speaker polarity

Hi Stephen,

Totally random coincidence.  Is the LSurr speaker facing a different space than the RSurr?  Sometimes that can cause this.  This is just a warning: if you've checked the wiring then you can skip.  The most important part of Audyssey, the filter calculation, totally ignores this info.  

Audyssey does check for polarity, but it can be fooled some times.  I think that's why Onkyo decided to stop implementing it.  Acoustical conditions, drivers intentionally out of phase, etc. can give false alarms.

Hi Chris,

             running the speaker setup on my Pioneer LX-83 I get the wrong polarity warning on my RS speaker even though the wiring is correct. Is it safe to skip and proceed i.e. it wont damage my speaker (Monitor Gold's) or Receiver??

Will noise still come from the speaker?

Thanks

Greg

Hi Greg,

I can't really speak for Pioneer as they don't use Audyssey.  However, if you have checked the wiring on the amp and the speaker then it's fine to proceed.  There is no chance of damage and sound will come out of the speaker.  The only thing that is affected if one of a pair of speakers has the wrong polarity is imaging.  That's very important to get right for the front speakers and less so for the surrounds that are supposed to sound diffuse anyway.

Thanks very much for your help Chris.

All the best

Greg

I'm using a Marantz SR-5005 in a home theatre system with vintage JBL speakers circa early 1980's. Front L/R are L112's, center is another L112 and the surrounds are L15's. When running Audyssey Auto set up I receive the following error message Front L/R: Phase. Does this mean that both the Left and Right front speakers are out of phase or that the Left and Right are out of phase with each other. I've double checked the wires and have Red (+) from the receiver to Red (+) at the speakers. The JBL tecnical sheets all show red (+) at the red binding post. I've pulled the low frequency driver out of the front R & L and both are wired correctly to the JBL diagram.  If the error message means that they are both out of phase it would seem that I can ignore the error message.However, if it means that they are out of phase with each other it seem that I might have a problem to find. Your input would be appreciated.

Art

Hi Art,

This is just a warning to check the wiring on both ends.  If it's correct on the amp the back of the speaker then you can hit skip and proceed.  There are several reasons that can cause this warning, but since you have checked the wiring there is nothing to worry about.  The warning has no effect on the calculation of the room correction filters.

Thanks. Still wondering whether the error message Front L/R: Phase means that both front Left and Right are being sensed as out of phase with the other speakers in the system or out of phase with each other.

Audyssey checks each speaker individually for polarity.  I am not familiar with the Marantz interface however.  Most other AVRs indicate individual speaker polarity warnings.

I have both a Denon 3808CI and now a new Marantz 1602NR - completely different type speakers connected - completely different listening environments and speaker placements - and...deja vu when setting up the Marantz: it says Surround Left out of phase exactly as did my Denon when I set it up.  I did just skip over it after pulling the wires and triple checking the connections.  Maybe just random, but it kind of freaked me out and led me to this page. ;-)

Otherwise brilliant stuff - the difference it made on the Marantz/B&W/REL setup was incredible - sounds amazing.

In through the wall systems with 11 speakers, I think an audyssey check would be helpful.

The Aix sound calibration disk has helped me a lot with respect to phasing complex installations.. It would be nice if audysey could do a check and say all is ok. Perhaps this could be done in the pro kit software or is it manufacturer limited?

hi chris,  i ran the 2EQ setup on my onkyo 607, it come up with 40hz for ALL fronts-B&W604,centre-b&w lcr60 and surround- whalfdale 9.5 speakers and 120hz for LFE.    should i change any of these setting too?  as i my fronts seam to bassy .      thank you chris

If Audyssey found 40 Hz as the roll off then that is what's happening in your room with this speaker placement.  You can change it if you like.  It won't have any effect on the 2EQ filters.

Hi Chris,

Glad to find a place for authoritative answers.  Some opinions on AVSForums get confusing!

I have an Onkyo SC-5508 prepro with XT32.  I have found that, with playing music, I am having a phase issue.  There are no phase warnings when I calibrate (you have said Onkyo doesn't have them).  Connecting source to pre/pro by HDMI, relative phase is reversed when playing with Aud EQ (Stereo mode) and when playing in Direct mode.  If I reverse one speaker's +/- leads, it becomes in phase.  However, when I play my source into a standalone DAC then analog into the Onkyo, I get correct phase in Direct mode and reversed when in Stereo!  (I am testing phase with a test disc).

It seems there may be an issue with the speakers phase wiring themselves, but it is puzzling that I get what seems like inconsistent results when playing through the DAC.

Can you make any sense of this and/or offer any suggestions?

Thanks.......Peter

Chris,

Could a polarity warning be generated if the wiring in XLR interconnects is wrong--hot/cold/neutral. That really cannot happen with RCA interconnects.

I recently added XLRs as interconnects between preamp and two amps, replacing my RCAs on all but my fronts, which are bi-amped. Running Audyssey XT32 setup now shows all XLR connected speakers as having phase errors except the right height speaker, even though it is also using an XLR interconnect.

I know you've stressed the polarity issue is just a warning to check speaker connections, but what about the XLR interconnects that really cannot be easily or harmlessly checked?

Gary

Hi Gary,

Yes, it can absolutely happen. Keep in mind that there are actually two (!) XLR standards.  Hollywood and postproduction studios typically use pin 2 hot XLRs (based on the European original standard).  Some, however, use pin 3 hot XLRs.  So, if your cables and the connectors on the preamp use a different pin for "hot" then you will get this warning.  If all speakers have it then it's the same as being in-phase.

Chris,

So in one method--the European--pin 2 is hot? I had these cables made to the European standard, and I want to make sure they're right. That's what Marantz is requiring. But how do I determine which is pin 2? Don't the ends of the cable "face" one another? This is so confusing!

Pin 2 is the same on all connectors.  The question is what signal is being sent to pin 2 in the preamp and what does the amp expect.  My suspicion is that amp is interpreting pin 2 as the negative signal and the preamp as the positive.  It's really not a problem if all speakers are showing opposite polarity.  Polarity is relative so all that matters is that they are in phase with each other.

Chris,
Just one more round, I promise.

That not all my speakers register a phase error during Audyssey calibration shows I do have a problem. When I attach an ohmmeter to pin 1 at both ends of the cable, I see a short, as expected. But when I connect pin 3 at both ends, not so; in fact, 2 and 3 seem reversed at each end. Time for the soldering iron, no?

Yes, it looks like your cables were not properly made... The pin reversal you are seeing would cause a polarity flip.

If sometimes, as you say Chris, speaker manufacturers intentionally wire a driver out of phase, doesn't that mean that the driver will be pushing out air, when all other drivers in the system will be breathing in? This seems like a problem to me. To be more specific I recently purchased two new FL and FR speakers from Sonus Faber, which are recognized by Audyssey, as being out of phase (although they are wired correctly). The C, SL and SR speakers are from Tannoy (Arena 5.1 system). How can I be sure that all speakers are in phase? Couldn’t it be that some manufacturers follow a different convention regarding the naming of their speakers polarity?

The first time you connect the speakers Audyssey system showed no problems, but when sticking to the wall, and returned to run the Audyssey system that showed the problem of the phase in front left speaker, I check the cables and are well connected but Audyssey system still shows the same problem.

how I can fix it?

thanks

It's not unusual for the polarity warning to come up.  It could be due to an acoustical effect or because one of the drivers in the speaker is intentionally wired out of phase by the manufacturer.  This is a simple warning.  It has no effect on the measurements.  If you have checked the wires on the back of the speaker and the amp, then hit Skip and proceed with the calibration.

I have a similar issue with setting up my Denon 1909. My problem is I have no skip option, only cancel or retry, which yields similar phase errors each time.

Hi Nigel, are you looking on the on-screen display on the TV?  The Skip option is there.  It may not show on the front panel of the AVR.

Hi,

I am intrigued by this. I understand it makes no difference but this puzzles me.

All my cables are wired correctly, all speakers the same manufacture and series.

I have the multeq room equaliser sitting between my Rotel rsp 1570 and denon poa a1hd power amp.

I ran the setup yesterday via the pro install kit and it reported my FL to be out of phase along with a dipoles. I was expecting the dipoles to be out, as they should be. So out of interest I switched the cables round and the phase rectified.

Today I decided to do another calibration, and it says FL / FR / SL / SR are all out of phase. Nothing has changed or moved since yesterday? Any ideas?

It could be a combination of the speaker, the room acoustics and the exact mic placement. Polarity is calculated from the first mic position so variations in that may cause different readings.  Not worth worrying about.  If the wiring is as the manufacturer asks then you should go with that.  MultEQ completely ignores these warnings in the filter calculation.

Wow, thanks for the prompt reply. I wish all other companies copied your customer service ethos.

Yes, I am not worried. And indeed I did just skip thru. Was just puzzled by the anomaly that is all. Checking I wasn't doing something silly on the setup.

Hi Chris,

Does it matter which color of the wire hoos up to which pole?  I am using speaker wire that has a clear houseing and a darker grey housing, but I'm not sure which one needs to go to negative and which one needs to go to positive.

Also, should I be facing all of my speakers in the direction of the main seating area?

Thank you,

Ashley

Hi Ashley, it doesn't matter which side of the wire is connected.  As long as the same color goes to positive and negative on the speaker and the amplifier.